Iron Heads Compared. Can't answer what pistons alone might do, haven't ever seen anyone only upgrade pistons. If you are looking to add power to an existing non turbo motor, you must do extensive research. Be aware that the wider the ring gaps are, the greater the loss of cylinder pressure and, consequently, power. With a true 58cc casting such as the EQ Magnum or Edelbrock Performer RPM heads youll be in the vicinity of 9.5:1 compression with the stock short block. N matter how you configure it,going from 118 cc to 100 cc on any low compression 454=1 full point in compression ( 7.5:1 to 8.5:1). But most likely, somewhere between 225 and 300 HP. In the stock class (stock engine and piston) we couldn't buy a start. Incorporating suggestions from many of todays leading AMC performance engine builders, Wiseco is manufacturing flat top and reverse dome oversize 360 pistons and 401 pistons. 1. height. All Gen4 5.3's from 2007.5-Mid 2009 used 0cc flat top pistons. The amount of boost that is being produced by the blower is the critical factor. But most likely, somewhere between 225 and 300 HP. I was woundering if anyone knows the horsepower capability of a natural aspirated 289 cube inch block using ported hipo 289 heads with 1.94/1.60 valves with flat top pistons,bored .030 over and a good roller cam. My sourse of info on domed pistons goes back to an article written in the late 60's, where 13:1 Domes were put in a 327 Chevy, and they actually made less HP than did a set of 10:1 flat tops. To add strength, engineers created a deep skirt block where the pan rail extends below the bottom of the 4-bolt main caps using a pair of 8mm horizontal bolts to laterally locate each main cap. The torque peak with the round dish was actually flatter in RPM range with just shy of 400 pound feet from about 3500 to 4500 RPM. possibly, maybe a little faster rev with a lighter forged unit over a cast stocker but hardly noticable by the seat of the pants.. if you go to a 14:1, my guess would be approx .5-1.0 hp more from 4k-9k. 66Satellite47 said: I'd like to hear how much difference there is between the quench dome style piston is compared to a flat top (HP & torque) with a 906 or 452 style head with minimal milling (84-86 cc). Add to this an increase in blow-by into the crankcase. (flat top being the 290hp) FYI Al Flat top piston with a good head and combustion chamber shape also provide a good squish area,helping the flame front develope more punch.Have also read flat tops are easier on the top rings.There is a lot written about this subject. Aug 15, 2010. Get Price With a composition head gasket, the piston 0.020-inch below deck, and a 76cc combustion chamber, and with a composition head gasket this puts the static compression at 8.5:1. pistons = 8.2" The stock pistons have a taller Comp. How much HP does a hydraulic pump need What is the HP rating? What caught my attention though is the motor created more power with Flat top pistons V.S. Many. a flat top piston will squish the air/fuel mixture into a smaller area, which will allow it to burn more quickly and more thoroughly than a dished piston at the same CR. 89 should be fine, if you bump the timimg you might be looking at 92 to keep out of detonation at low RPM heavy load. The 1/16or even 0.043-inch-wide rings are what you should go for. In you rcase there are 2 different 454 pistons for trucks. A pure flat-top piston does not affect compressionbut rarely occurs in the real world. Even a "flat top" piston incorporates valve reliefs in the piston top that add volume. A typical small-block, four-eyebrow piston contributes roughly 4 to 6 cc's worth of volume. 1. Location. As for pump gas, and aluminum heads, and 10-1 compression. 84 Z28 Camaro, 2 Seater Convertible, w/283 bored 80 over,flat top pistons, 2.02/1.60 Camel Hump Heads 64cc (3782461), Blueracer Camshaft: Duration 230/230 @.050 Lift 480/480 109 degrees, Edelbrock RPM Maniford, Holley 670 Avenger Carb, Hooker Ceramic Coated 1 5/8 Headers, Pro-Built 700R4 Street/Strip Trans. 92 RS with 252K miles, burns no oil CAI, SS header, resonated test pipe, free flow exhaust, Neuspeed Sports, GR2's (koni y soon), Ingalls camber, front strut bar, B&M SS with bushings. Nov 27, 2006. Robert R. 1988 S10 blazer 5.0L SBC 700R4 body off build. Filtrex. The compression ratio was held constant between the two builds. Stock compression on them is 9.9:1, it'll be a little higher with stock 5.3 heads but if it were me I'd go ahead and do some milled 243's with some bowl work. Rounding out the reciprocating assembly are Manley forged H-beam rods and flat-top pistons that raised the compression ratio from 8.4:1 to 9.7:1. THe 210 is a small valved, low compression jobber with the 250, 275 and 300 engines darn good one's b/c they are right at 10 to 1 CR. Cleanup is a snap as well. You'll be at 10.4:1 with flat tops. I am not sure I would recomend enlarging a manufacture's designed combustion chamber anyway but to do this so you could run a bigger dome piston to impede flame travel is definitely counterproductive. (Remember the 351M uses the same rod as the 400 with 0.50 less stroke so its piston compression height is much taller than the 400 piston to make up for the different stroke with the same rod. GM added the 4.8L flat tops to the 5.3L when they switched to the 243/799 heads on the 5.3L HO's and the Gen IV 5.3l's. A thinner gasket will give higher numbers as will a head that has been shaved making the combustion chambers smaller. The trend in modern engine design seems to be smaller combustion chambers with recessed piston tops for more HP per cubic inch. Depends on your setup. Jan 20, 2015. The reason dished are use on power adders is because there's less cylinder pressure pushing against the adj. piston kit, the 08 kx250f will gain nothing. With iron heads that is going to be 89-91 octane territory, but very do-able. As for output, a set of heads like this can deliver the airflow required for 540 hp for a flat-tappet 12:1 engine and as much as 585 hp for a roller-cam-equipped engine. Your engine operates by taking in air, blending it with fuel, and burning the mixture to produce power. So, if an engine is making 50 horsepower and we add a full point of compression (from 11 to 12:1 for example), this could potentially push the power to 51.5 horsepower. The horsepower peak was about 370 at 5800 with a tail off about 360 at 6000. First off, what 327 engine are you talking about b/c it came in! NOTE: It is important to understand that for all practical purposes, an engine does not know what size supercharger is bolted to it. I was driving it by a kind of instinct, only I was in a different dimension. That is what I have always used. The stock bore of a Ford 300 inline six engine is 4.000 inches. with 62 to 64 cc medium valved heads and flat-top pistons. But flame travel, issues may well make a 10 to 1 flat top engine make the same horsepower at top end as a 14 to 1. A larger blower, such as Weiand's 6-71, on a similar engine to the one described above could push the top power output well over 500 hp. This rating is typically found on the side of the pump. most cases it's not really all in the piston most 350's will either have a flat top or a dished piston but both will have a large combustion chamber in the head. Jul 30, 2013. Pistons on the L18 do not come up to the top of the block and stop 0.55mm below it, making the combustion chamber larger by 3.119cc. this has all been added into the calculation. Good early stock pistons can be reused in street apps if wear is in spec for a stock or .010 over ring. Compression ratio the stock pistons are maybe 8.5 to 1 and the flat tops 10 to 1 little more power. 220 - 230 +75 hp: Steady lope: Converter recommended. The P's will allow a lot of power on the 347 with the TFS cam, however, they would be much better suited for the 5.0!! More air volume at BDC, more air movement. Does flat top pistons increase horsepower? Also the squish clearance will have a bigger effect if different for each piston. This really isnt bad. It all has to add up to 8.2" deck height. it will be the same. Anywhere from 20 hp to 200 hp. BrazilianZ28Camaro. The majority of these pistons still have 5/64 compression rings. 210, 250, 275, 300, 340, 360, 365 and 375 hp versions! They seal well and increase compression significantly over stock. parts like the heads, gaskets, pistons. Only show this user. Are flat top pistons good for horsepower? I agree that it would be a "better deal" for Woodys 347! builder said: if you have a flat top vs dished, the dished piston (same CR) gives the effect of more stroke, because the top of the piston (majority of it) is lower than the flat top piston would be at BDC. All Gen3 L33 engines had flat top pistons. Unfortunately, this small chamber combined with a flat-top, 6cc valve relief piston, a 0.015-inch deck, and a 0.041-inch thick gasket creates an The domed piston motor ran 7.70's. To do this, you need to measure the combustion chamber (in cubic centimeters). You also need to make a provisional choice of piston in terms of crown configuration. Remember, a flat-top piston has many advantages in terms of results, weight, and cost. If the CR you are shooting for needs to have a raised crown piston, go for the minimum possible. A typical small-block, four-eyebrow piston contributes roughly 4 to 6 cc's worth of volume. This is the same as adding that amount to the combustion chamber size. Still can drive daily. RE: Flat Tops vs Dished Pistons. Now, however, engine builders are leaning towards small combustion chambers with flat-top pistonsor at least pistons with restrained domesto achieve a higher CR. Flat-top is the ideal scenario, says DAgostino. The true flat top with 1 4cc valve notch yeilds 7.8:1 with 118cc heads and 8.8:1 with 100 cc heads. The normal cheap hyper flat top to use is the Speed Pro. What the two guys said above but theres more to this than an easy, Its an easy XXX more hp and TQ.. My experience has been such. Well flat top pistons will increase your compression ratio and therefore will boost your power slightly. Small combustion chambers respond well to dished pistons, especially reversed dome or "D" cups. I honestly don"t think one is better than the other in a traditional engine. #3. Some common HP ratings for hydraulic pumps are 500, 1,000, 2,000 and 5,000. King Of Cubes. Horsepower at the wheels after bolt-ons Idle Quality Notes; 191 (Stock) 260-270 whp: Smooth: Heavy drivetrain. First, the RHS Pro Action heads. The engine is rated by Ford at 365 hp. You could bore to the LS1 pistons run them and get a set of ported 243's. A 400 small block Chevy can use a 22cc D Cup piston and still have 10.4:1 compression. There is no good reason for using these wider rings. Upgrading to a performance cold air intake (CAI) system like the K&N 63 Series AirCharger is one of the most accessible and affordable ways to increase horsepower. 550. Raised top pistons are often used to increase the compression ratio, Therefore it would take many dynos for many different pistons to determine what is really best compression ratio. The generally accepted gauge for adding compression is that one full point of compression can add between 3 to 4 percent power . Thats easily a 100K mile motor. Same engine exactly except for piston type. Denville NJ. The engine should be plenty healthy enough for a streeter. If you want to install a new set of pistons into an older engine you'll probably want to bore the cylinders out to 4.030 inches to clean up the bores. Flat top pistons often have semicircular reliefs to allow for valve clearance. novaderrik. A hydraulic pump needs a certain amount of horsepower to operate. Just adding a cam and a 215 +50 hp: Slightly noticeable: Good with auto and stock converter. Posted via Topify using iPhone/iPad. D. Heads and intake good for USE A COLD AIR INTAKE. the top of the piston is flat, as opposed to having a raised portion. The centerpiece of the build is a Ford Performance Cobra Jet crankshaft, which he had machined for dual keyways. Also, a small volume of air will also be lower in the cylinder with a dished piston. You can get valve reliefs and/or thicker head gaskets to bring it down if you don't want a dished piston. Find a motor with low /lower compression and /or find a My DSS stroker came with 5.315" long rods, " stroker crank, and a shorter compression height pistons. Re: HP increase with flat top & RV cam Depends on what pistons (whether they have the added rebuilder deck clearance), what heads (the SINGLE MOST CRITICAL thing to HP potential), and what machine work and attention to detail it was given. I am going to stay with my estimate of 1 HP per inch as an estimate not knowing the entire build, there are just too many variables. Since we dont know much about your 350 small block, well assume it employs the typical flat top, four eyebrow production pistons. 4) flat top aluminum pistons 5) flat top lifters 6) roller rockers 7) double hump 2.02/1.6 heads (3890462) rebuilt. Camshaft. What year 5.3 has flat top pistons? Here is my current experience with the three main players in the high-performance iron head business. The manufacturer also said its hypereutectic performance pistons may be able to handle up to 1,000 horsepower provided the fuel mixture and timing are correct so the engine doesnt go into detonation or preignition. One of the biggest differences between a GM crate 260hp & 290HP 350 engine is the piston, flat top VS dish. In a nose heavy '70 Ranchero (@ 3600-3700 lbs, straight motor & crap slicks) the flat top Cleveland ran in the 8.00, 8.20, 8.40 range 1/8 mile. Great explaination Otto, the faster burn is with the flat top. if you are considering 13.5:1 as a hi-comp. The $85 flat top speed pro's you get now are made in USA, coated skirt, 4 valve relief. Answer: It is just what it implies. Aug 15, 2010. Just what I observed with past "TRW" Clevelands using flat tops vs domed pistons, both using the same sized closed chamber 4V quench heads. ! cycle (Automotive) 23 Jan 02 22:31. Put in stock 4.8 pistons, they're already flat tops and its what the L33 5.3 is with 243 heads. With a flat top piston and the small combustion chambers depending on deck height you should be in the 9.5-10.5:1 range on compression. When VVT was added in 2010, they used a flat top piston with -3cc valve reliefs cut into them. 4,285. This movement powers many car components, such as engine pistons and valves. Generally speaking though, stock 400 pistons can handle 7200 rpm for short bursts, any aftermarket piston should handle 6800 without fail (if your tune is on) I was no longer driving the car consciously. 230 - 240 +100 hp: Lopey: Fly-cutting the pistons may be required. the "ball" of air/fuel mixture has any given molecule closer to any other molecule than a flat "pancake" of mixture will. the Domed "ie high compression" Pistons. The compression height of the stock 400 piston is 1.650. There are so many different brands and types of rings though, you could go crazy picking them. How much HP does flat top pistons add? Flat top, with two valve reliefs (340) Dome, with two valve reliefs (236) Dish, with no valve reliefs (28) Flat top, with no valve reliefs (19) Dome, with no valve reliefs (10) Dish, with a D-shaped cup (2) Get Results; Piston Material . The beauty of the early ones, 68-71, IMHO, is that the pistons are not dished. I do use a lot of domed pistons with the R&R heads because the velocity is so good that the turbulance is good enough with a domed piston to get the VE up there (on the street). Flat top piston with a good head and combustion chamber shape also provide a good squish area,helping the flame front develope more punch.Have also read flat tops are easier on the top rings.There is a lot written about this subject. (May have ported & polished, not sure) 8) Edelbrock 2101 performer intake 9) Edelbrock 1805 650 CFM carb I want street performance and (3.25/2)+5.315+1.26Comp. Apr 13, 2004. Answer (1 of 16): So. 72 Monte Carlo (3865 lb Street/sStrip Orange Monster) 6.09/113.75 mph 1.32 60 ft. 9.634/141.50 mph-best pass. For rings I use the plama moly speed pros. I do believe different pistons will dyno differently by design. These pistons include thicker decks and performance optimized piston ring lands. 515-266-6381. www.kingofcubes.com. Only show this user. The 14 to 1 engine was a better drag race engine as it made much more power at low rpm (ample burn time and poor volumetric efficiency) As a Bonneville motor it was no faster and much harder on parts. Beyond 2 horsepower per cubic inch, they would recommend upgrading to forged pistons. It's just safer this way and provides an ease of the mind. How much HP does compression add? Variables. north houston. With NOTHING else changed, a point of compression nets 4% gain in HP, so for a 300Hp engine, you gain 12 HP. The reason was because of the dome shape, interfering with the burn pattern. So I was reading an artical about big block Ford motors making Big HP naturally aspirated for 10.5 outlaw, big cubes as in 818ci, yes that big lol. IF the pistons are designed to a .025 deck, pure flat top, and you use a thick head gasket (.040x4.03) and the block is stock and the heads still read an even 64CCs, then you'll have ~10.25:1 compression. Stock compression heights of the various 351C pistons range from 1.631 to 1.657. Add a Fast 90mm intake, cam, and you have an 400hp iron block LS6. You can pick up a set of forged pistons for 450.00, and then add ARP rod bolts/ ring set/ bearings.. possibly a balance ( I would).. height (distance from the centerline of the piston pin to the top of the piston). Heres how it works: As the air gets colder, it also gets denser.